They are wonderful breads, undoubtedly, but I would rather a meat, seafood, vegetable course—even a pasta—and then I would have those on the side, especially if I am $300+ deep on a tasting menu. There’s skill, but it feels like a con to serve me bread and tell me it’s a course. For example, you don’t usually get broth on its own.
I understand your rationale, but I disagree ;) It's most definitely a course in its own right with accompanying butters/ olive oils - and often the highlight of a tasting menu. If a pastry can be a dessert course, why not bread? Similar skill sets are required. I love when restaurants serve it half way through the meal, so that you don't inadvertently carb-load at the start. Not a tasting menu, but the brioche feuilletée as part of a trio of breads paired with three butters at The Cullinan is the best bread I have ever eaten in Dubai (beating FZN's).
With you all the way on this. While I very fondly remember the freebie bread baskets of 90s and 2000s London (La Tante Claire and Tom Aikens in particular) and the astonishing bread trolley at Ducasse in Paris (do they still do that?), I love a full-on, properly garnished, bells-and-whistles bread course. I make sure I keep hold of some of the bread for mopping up sauces later in the meal.
Yes to bread mopping. And yes to the bread trolley at Alain Ducasse in Paris. A wedding gift from my sister in 2018…the meal not the trolley! Mind you, my husband found a hair lurking in one of his dishes and with appalling customer service recovery, we’re never returning…even it was three Michelin star hair. It’s a good job I interviewed him in Dubai before this meal (his restaurant here didn’t last long).
That can be the problem with French service; they don't like any pushback in any shape or form. At a restaurant in Montpellier a few years ago, my wife's starter was woefully underseasoned, she asked for salt and they point-blank refused even after several requests. I complained to the chef at the end of the meal, and he couldn't have cared less! I didn't even realise Ducasse had a Dubai restaurant - how long did it last?
Yep! By the name of Mix. More of a sterile nightclub. The hotel would have invested. No monetary cost to Ducasse, other than the negative impact on his brand with the closure. Chefs just lap up the royalties whilst they last 🤯
Yup, it’s a thing people do like but some, like myself, think it’s a nonsense. If given the choice between bread and another option, I would almost always choose the other option, or opt out for having the course.
This did make me laugh because I kept hearing ‘if a woodchuck could chuck wood’. I think the question comes down to what is being served. In the context of a tasting menu, there’s a pretty clear trend that bread is ‘the course’, especially in the last five years. The examples underscore what certain kitchens do. There are others, but those were the best of the bunch. It’s bread first, nice dippy thing second. I would like to ‘call time’ on bread being the focus because it just feels like a con. Foie gras comes may come with melba toast, but the toast is not the focal point. Bread and butter pudding is an interesting one but there bread is an integral ingredient, but not the dish itself. ( I also can’t think of a time I’ve seen a bread and butter pudding course in a tasting menu.) What I see more and more are restaurants serving bread as if it is a means to the end and, despite valiant achievements, I would much those were served as impressive sides or ancillaries and I would MUCH rather get a vegetable dish, a cheese course, a protein and not a course that is IMHO a gentrified side dish.
I’m just being silly really. I do — sort of agree — and rarely order a bread course. I’m quite open to bread courses, although for me to see the value it really has to be a standout experience that’s able to rise (pun intended) to the occasion.
Sure! During a tasting menu, the kitchen will send you bread as one of the courses, like they would send fish, a vegetable course or dessert. Usually it’s quite good bread with something good to put on it, but it’s bread. For example, there might be a compound butter of sorts or an XO make in house.
I feel so conflicted!! I both agree and yet have had such memorable bread courses… my love for potatoes and bread (and butter) mean I could never be disappointed to see them on a tasting menu despite how humble they are
I can agree that Clare’s is exceptional having eaten at Core last month, but the sourdough and cultured butter was also sublime… off to look up Joel’s tatties 👀
I both agree and disagree. I wouldn’t typically order a bread course à la carte. But there are bread courses within tasting menus that, in my view, have a strong enough “message” to stand on their own - and in those cases, I never felt shortchanged.
And of course, I always make sure to save some for mopping up the sauces later on…
I don’t think it matters if it is a course as long as it is available in time to mop up excess sauce as per Andy Lynes….although I have no problem using my finger if required for that.
A bigger issue in my book has been around for ages now, and that is the need to pay extra for bread on A la Carte menus….. I know we are not talking ‘high end’ restaurants here, but it is a trend I do not like.
One of my favorite breads wasn't in a restaurant, it was in Lucca, Forno Francesco Casali. That bread was good for the day, first thing in the morning and it was awesome. As to whether or not bread is a course, it can be if it's treated like dessert courses. Dedicated to the craft of baking, not some afterthought. As much thought and effort that is put into sourcing a steak, a seasonal fruit or veg, if that effort is put into bread, make it a real course and not a freebie.
Preach! It irritates me when I see this, too. Also, the FZN monkey bread looks phenomenal.
I love bread in the round, I love it as a side. It has no place as a course in tasting menus.
Agree to disagree. The breads you mentioned require hard work from the pastry/kitchen teams and are, therefore, worthy of a standalone course.
They are wonderful breads, undoubtedly, but I would rather a meat, seafood, vegetable course—even a pasta—and then I would have those on the side, especially if I am $300+ deep on a tasting menu. There’s skill, but it feels like a con to serve me bread and tell me it’s a course. For example, you don’t usually get broth on its own.
And for me fancy, delicious bread > almost anything else. 🤓 Knowing this about you, the next time we dine out — I will happily take your bread course.
I'm off to FZN tonight; I'll reply after I try this monkey bread of which you speak!
Loved the bread, would wear the XO like a skin balm!
I understand your rationale, but I disagree ;) It's most definitely a course in its own right with accompanying butters/ olive oils - and often the highlight of a tasting menu. If a pastry can be a dessert course, why not bread? Similar skill sets are required. I love when restaurants serve it half way through the meal, so that you don't inadvertently carb-load at the start. Not a tasting menu, but the brioche feuilletée as part of a trio of breads paired with three butters at The Cullinan is the best bread I have ever eaten in Dubai (beating FZN's).
With you all the way on this. While I very fondly remember the freebie bread baskets of 90s and 2000s London (La Tante Claire and Tom Aikens in particular) and the astonishing bread trolley at Ducasse in Paris (do they still do that?), I love a full-on, properly garnished, bells-and-whistles bread course. I make sure I keep hold of some of the bread for mopping up sauces later in the meal.
Yes to bread mopping. And yes to the bread trolley at Alain Ducasse in Paris. A wedding gift from my sister in 2018…the meal not the trolley! Mind you, my husband found a hair lurking in one of his dishes and with appalling customer service recovery, we’re never returning…even it was three Michelin star hair. It’s a good job I interviewed him in Dubai before this meal (his restaurant here didn’t last long).
That can be the problem with French service; they don't like any pushback in any shape or form. At a restaurant in Montpellier a few years ago, my wife's starter was woefully underseasoned, she asked for salt and they point-blank refused even after several requests. I complained to the chef at the end of the meal, and he couldn't have cared less! I didn't even realise Ducasse had a Dubai restaurant - how long did it last?
One year. Opened late 2018. As we often see here with celeb chef concepts, hotels don’t renew the royalties for year two.
Wow - that's crazy. I was reading about it - it was spread over three floors wasn't it? That's a big investment for 12 months of trading!
Yep! By the name of Mix. More of a sterile nightclub. The hotel would have invested. No monetary cost to Ducasse, other than the negative impact on his brand with the closure. Chefs just lap up the royalties whilst they last 🤯
How much topping would a piece of bread need to not be considered a bread course?
A very valid question. 5g? 10g?
Would a pizza be considered a full course of food?
How often does pizza appear in a tasting menu?
Eric enjoyed a pizza tasting menu in Naples!
That is 1 out of how many tasting menus has he done?
Fair play. :)
Not often enough
I would say go back to the examples I gave. Those are obviously bread courses and intended to be as such. The volume of toppings is not a factor.
(I’m personally in favour of bread courses)
Yup, it’s a thing people do like but some, like myself, think it’s a nonsense. If given the choice between bread and another option, I would almost always choose the other option, or opt out for having the course.
This did make me laugh because I kept hearing ‘if a woodchuck could chuck wood’. I think the question comes down to what is being served. In the context of a tasting menu, there’s a pretty clear trend that bread is ‘the course’, especially in the last five years. The examples underscore what certain kitchens do. There are others, but those were the best of the bunch. It’s bread first, nice dippy thing second. I would like to ‘call time’ on bread being the focus because it just feels like a con. Foie gras comes may come with melba toast, but the toast is not the focal point. Bread and butter pudding is an interesting one but there bread is an integral ingredient, but not the dish itself. ( I also can’t think of a time I’ve seen a bread and butter pudding course in a tasting menu.) What I see more and more are restaurants serving bread as if it is a means to the end and, despite valiant achievements, I would much those were served as impressive sides or ancillaries and I would MUCH rather get a vegetable dish, a cheese course, a protein and not a course that is IMHO a gentrified side dish.
I’m just being silly really. I do — sort of agree — and rarely order a bread course. I’m quite open to bread courses, although for me to see the value it really has to be a standout experience that’s able to rise (pun intended) to the occasion.
I enjoyed reading this, but I’m confused. What is a bread course? Can you give me some examples?
Sure! During a tasting menu, the kitchen will send you bread as one of the courses, like they would send fish, a vegetable course or dessert. Usually it’s quite good bread with something good to put on it, but it’s bread. For example, there might be a compound butter of sorts or an XO make in house.
I feel so conflicted!! I both agree and yet have had such memorable bread courses… my love for potatoes and bread (and butter) mean I could never be disappointed to see them on a tasting menu despite how humble they are
I would definitely take a good potato dish over a bread course. See Clare Smyth’s iconic dish, or Joël Robuchon mash!
I can agree that Clare’s is exceptional having eaten at Core last month, but the sourdough and cultured butter was also sublime… off to look up Joel’s tatties 👀
She was notoriously difficult on her bread suppliers while she was at Gordon’s, in the most admirable way.
A chef friend worked at JR and said the mash was made with frozen potato pellets. Stick with the bread.
If it’s on the side 😉
I both agree and disagree. I wouldn’t typically order a bread course à la carte. But there are bread courses within tasting menus that, in my view, have a strong enough “message” to stand on their own - and in those cases, I never felt shortchanged.
And of course, I always make sure to save some for mopping up the sauces later on…
I’m here for scarpetta always.
Anyways, I will also collect my fave bread (courses) from around the world
I await the list!
I don’t think it matters if it is a course as long as it is available in time to mop up excess sauce as per Andy Lynes….although I have no problem using my finger if required for that.
A bigger issue in my book has been around for ages now, and that is the need to pay extra for bread on A la Carte menus….. I know we are not talking ‘high end’ restaurants here, but it is a trend I do not like.
I have a friend that HATES paying for coffee at tasting menus, especially the very pricey ones, because he thinks it should just be thrown in.
I think that friend is correct.
Hahaha, we both know him.
He generally wright about most things. ❤️
One of my favorite breads wasn't in a restaurant, it was in Lucca, Forno Francesco Casali. That bread was good for the day, first thing in the morning and it was awesome. As to whether or not bread is a course, it can be if it's treated like dessert courses. Dedicated to the craft of baking, not some afterthought. As much thought and effort that is put into sourcing a steak, a seasonal fruit or veg, if that effort is put into bread, make it a real course and not a freebie.